You mentioned it is not important to be “the ultimate collectorâ€, but rather to love one’s collection as well as the quality of artwork. Can you elaborate?
The essential quality for a collector is ‘passion’. If there is passion, you will automatically strive to develop your knowledge, to sharpen the sensitivity of your eyes and feeling, and to get the best pieces. It will give you enjoyment and this will increase the quality of your life, which is the main purpose of collecting.
Your personal collection of art is awe-inspiring. Do you remember the first significant piece you purchased and what was it that drew you to it?
The first significant pieces I purchased were three paintings by Affandi, bought all at once and which I paid for in monthly instalments. I had been captivated by his work from the first time I saw them, many years before I started collecting, when I was still a student.
Why do you think it is important to support art, particularly local artists?
Art should be a part of our life. It is not just aesthetics but also ethics. It is the sincerest pursuit in life because it represents the heart. Good art cannot lie. Local artists should be supported; otherwise, they will not be able to survive. This is important as artists play an important role in the building of a nation.
Are there any collectors you admire and why?
There are collectors I admire, particularly from the younger generation, because of their seriousness in contributing something to the art world.
What are your thoughts on the growing interest in Asian art?
Asian art, which is no less significant in terms of quality and importance as compared with Western art, had been neglected for too long because of Western economic and political supremacy. This has now changed. Led by powerful China, Asian art is attracting more and more interest, which is, of course, delightful.
What else can be done to promote or foster its growth?
Governments, particularly in less developed countries, should give better support, because the growth of art and culture is as important as economic expansion!
You mentioned once how fostering rapport with artists help in nurturing their best works, citing Peggy Guggenheim as an example. Can you share with us how you applied this theory in your own life?
I enjoy befriending artists and count myself close to many of them. Artists are sensitive people. Generally, they value friendship above money. They appreciate it if you take good care of their works. Only then will artists give you the chance to collect their best works, which they consider as their ‘babies’.
In buying art, you speak of the importance of intuition. How can this be cultivated?
As I have said before, art is honest; intuition is honest, too. That’s why intuition is so important. You can foster intuition by following your heart rather than your brain.
What were the factors that led to your decision to establish an art museum?
Initially, I did this because of the encouragement of the artists. The artists needed a museum where their works could be seen by the public. I realised this, too. When my collection became comprehensive enough, I did not want to wait any longer to establish a museum, though there are still imperfections. Postponement will only weaken your spirit and finally lead to nothing.
From your collection, it is obvious you greatly admire artists like Widayat, Affandi and Hendra Gunawan. What are your favourite pieces by them and why?
I have many works by them and also many favourite pieces. Some of Affandi’s I wish to mention are Kwan Kong, the Legendary General, Bistro in Paris, Chinese Temple in Jogya, Man with the Fighting Cock, Chained Boar and one of the Self-portraits. These works are so strong and powerful in their expression. In this aspect, they are unequalled. They are among Affandi’s masterpieces.
Gunawan has different styles from particular periods. I really like one from the 40s – On the Sidewalk of Yogyakarta – for its expressiveness and strong spontaneous, raw brushstrokes. From the 50s, The Batik Sellers, for its transparent and subtle brushstrokes and decorativeness. From prison and after his imprisonment period: Me Dasamuka. In this imaginative painting, you can feel his anxiety, anger, fear, despair and sadness from the first years of his imprisonment. It is a masterpiece. The colossal works – The Night Market and Saritem – are also superb in technique and content, spontaneous and eye-catching. Extraordinary in colour, form and composition. The life of the people of this social class cannot be better represented. Only Gunawan can paint like that. It is what I consider real masterpieces. That’s why I hang them in my living and dining rooms.
Regarding Widayat, I have so many works by him, from all periods and styles. He is such a versatile and creative artist, and could paint different styles in the same period. I’ll just mention a few of my favourites, because there are so many of them. The Rain Forest – with only one colour (brown), he succeeds in creating subtle layers. It is not three-dimensional and yet not flat. It is decorative but mesmerising. It is indescribable. Another masterpiece, Birds in Three Trees, is just birds and trees, but it has invisible power. When you take it down from your wall, you feel the change in the room’s atmosphere instantly. This painting is really magic.
What qualities, in your opinion, must a good artwork possess?
First of all, a good artwork must be captivating and will never leave your mind. It should have good technique and concept as well. There are, indeed, many upcoming talents who have caught my eye because of this, with their fresh ideas, innovative technique and the media they are exploring.
In growing a collection, good and bad experiences are part and parcel. What have been your own personal best and worst experiences to date?
It has been a long process and collecting is a self-learning process. There is no school to study collecting and making mistakes is the best teacher. I don’t regret making those mistakes because, without them, I would not have the collection I have today. Of course, there are thrilling occasions, like the great hunt to Rio de Janeiro when I brought back 30 high-quality Indonesian paintings, as well as great moments like the inauguration of the OHD Museum, where I could show the works of the five maestros (of modern Indonesian art, namely Soedibio, S Sudjojono, Widayat, Affandi and Gunawan) to the public. The worst experience after that was when some people doubted the authenticity of a number of works which I, and others who saw them, considered otherwise. This became a prolonged polemic, which is sad.
Was there a specific moment when you realised art is and would be a great, consuming part of your life?
I felt it day by day when I made more and more acquisitions. There is no specific moment.
Have there been any masterpieces that eluded your grasp? If yes, which were they and how did you miss out on them?
You cannot have everything and the most frustrating part is when you miss a work you want very much to collect. It is painful to remember. So, I think it is better not to mention it.
You made your first visit to Kuala Lumpur just last year. What was the visit like and what are your thoughts on the artworks seen and talents met?
I was surprised when I came to Kuala Lumpur. I realised that I had postponed my trip for too long. What I saw and experienced was honestly beyond my expectations. I think Malaysia has a great future. What delighted me so much was that Malaysian collectors have already amassed works by Indonesian artists that had not yet been collected by Indonesians, including myself.
What are your thoughts on kolekdol – people who buy to sell – and how do their actions affect  the industry?
A kolekdol is actually an art dealer and there is nothing wrong with it, because they are also stakeholders in the art world. However, they must do their job professionally. They should be knowledgeable, responsible and trustworthy. They should know what they are buying and selling, and give proper advice to their clients. If it is done properly, it will affect the industry in a positive way.
Paintings vs installations. What are your views and preferences, and why?
Paintings had been explored completely by the painters of modern era. It is very difficult for painters today to invent something new. Besides, technical skill is generally lower now because of less training and the use of modern technology, which can help artists in their work. I think this is one of the reasons why paintings in the modern era are more highly valued. Regarding paintings, I prefer works by modern masters. On the other hand, installations are something new. So, it is still full of surprises. And artists can collaborate with artists from different disciplines and even non-artists to execute their ideas, which did not exist before. This is why installation art is becoming increasingly popular. For contemporary works, my preference is shifting to installations.
You use the word greng a lot and you say it’s contagious. Can you elaborate?
The adjective greng came from Widayat; I merely borrowed it from him. Greng is a Javanese word for the jolt you experience when you touch electric current. A good painting should have greng as that means it is electrifying and stimulating your emotion. So, it must transmit something from inside that captivates the viewer. Good art is indeed contagious.
